Take off the Mask with CasieCasem

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Hey, everybody! Welcome back to take off the mask. I'm your host, Casey Kasem.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And today's episode is a meaningful one.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm joined again by someone I deeply admire.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Dr. Katie Wiggins, founder of uprooted, where healing is planted.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: She's not only a gifted therapist, but someone who has profoundly shaped my own healing journey.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: This is our second conversation.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And we're diving into something that touches all of us.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Often before we even realize it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Trauma. Trauma isn't always about what happened. Sometimes.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's about what didn't.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: The safety we never had.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: The words we needed, but never heard.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It can live quietly under the surface.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Shaping, how we cope, how we connect.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: How we love.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: This isn't a clinical breakdown. This is soul work.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: We're exploring how trauma lives in the body.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: In our relationships and in our sense of self.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Sometimes even without our awareness.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And I'll be honest. I recently had a breakthrough that changed me.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It is raw, it's real, and I'll be sharing it for the 1st time. Here with you.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: We're not here to fix you. We're here to honor what's been survived and remind you.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You were never broken.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So take a deep breath, grab something warm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Let's get this off to a great start, and be a soft place to land.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Hey, Katie! Welcome back!

Katie: Hey? Thanks for having me.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, I'm so happy to have you back.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: This is gonna be a big one. So.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Let's begin with a grounding moment. How are you showing up today?

Katie: Uh, I'd like to say less than heavy, but I've had a.

Katie: Pretty decent day of clients. So I.

Katie: But I um, I did do. That's why I said, let's start a little after, so I could get a little.

Katie: De like decompression time um. So I am showing up ready, and um.

Katie: Ready and able to dive in.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah. Oh, my gosh, I'm excited. I'm like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Nervous because.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I messaged you like as soon as this happened, and I was like, Oh, my gosh, Katie, we have to get together, and we have to do a. We gotta talk about this. This changed my life.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And you know we're.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Here, and we're talking about it. And now it's just like I I want to dive in. But before I can dive in we've got to take a step back and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Let's start by widening the lens.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Before we even try to define trauma. Let's sit with what it feels like to carry it.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Sometimes trauma doesn't look like a headline. It's invisible. Sometimes it looks like being the strong one.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like always having your guard up.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like never asking for help, because somewhere deep inside, you've learned that that meant losing.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And so we learned to function through it. High functioning.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: To dress it up in accomplishments, or numb it with noise. We mistake high performance for high healing.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: But trauma isn't about weakness. It's about what our systems did to survive.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So let's explore what trauma really is, and how it moves through us, and why naming it is the 1st brave step towards something different.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So. All right, Katie, what do you think? What is trauma?

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: How would you define that.

Katie: I mean trauma is.

Katie: Simply.

Katie: The response to a life-changing event.

Katie: The emotional response to a life-changing event. That's how I would define it.

Katie: So it can be a big event.

Katie: Like homicide loss, or it can be.

Katie: Um the more hidden events where we are emotionally like neglected, physically abandoned.

Katie: Time and time again as a child, and on. And that creates this core belief, this narrative that we live by at that and that.

Katie: That's where we develop trauma responses relationally.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Hmm.

Katie: From events.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I have a question that's not on script, but something that just kind of like made me question. I did a blog.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And we talked about the grief boxes.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And how they touch the buttons, and you know, over time.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: The box gets smaller, the ball still there, and you'll have different.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Griefs like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So is grief.

Katie: Yes.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Is so, grief is that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: How you're coping through the trauma like. That's a way of coping.

Katie: Sure. Yeah.

Katie: Yeah, I mean, if you had emotional neglect as a kid.

Katie: Um, and you didn't receive everything that you needed.

Katie: Um. You are grieving what should have been all of the time.

Katie: So, yeah, we grieve.

Katie: What's been lost, whatever that is.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I guess I'm curious, because there's so many words.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That describe like. So if trauma is basically.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: How you react to a life changing event.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's like webbing to so many things.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like like it. It really is incredible how it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It all just likes.

Katie: I mean formula is in our body.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: Trauma lives in our body. We have um.

Katie: It has deep impact on our brain functioning, you know, and so.

Katie: It can rewire our brain, which is why healing can rewire our brain, because neuroplasticity says.

Katie: It can be molded and changed and rewired, and moved around.

Katie: Um. But you know in the body keeps score that book. It discusses somatic memory.

Katie: And so trauma is.

Katie: Is really impacting us.

Katie: In a full body.

Katie: Full brain, way.

Katie: Our memories.

Katie: Our body remembers before our emotions do, for lack of a better way of putting it.

Katie: Somatic memories, just.

Katie: Where the the traumatic experience, whatever that is, is just stored in your body. Um!

Katie: For like physical sensations, or something like like muscle tension, fatigue. Right? That's why people have physical ailments.

Katie: Because it's somatic memory depending on the trauma.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So like pop in a can of biscuits when you're like taken aback because it startles you. And so then you always expect there to be.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: A pop and a startle when you open a can of biscuits.

Katie: Yeah, so physically, that would be like.

Katie: Tense, because the last time you.

Katie: Did that, or the last time you heard that sound it was so painful and so now.

Katie: You're automatically tense and preparing right. Trauma tells us that there's a threat.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Mhm.

Katie: And a lot of the time it there's not an actual threat.

Katie: But trauma tells us there's a threat.

Katie: So we respond.

Katie: As if there is a threat.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Hmm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, that's incredible.

Katie: It just leaves lasting imprints on us.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: And it changes, how our brain processes information. It changes, how our brain processes love.

Katie: Receiving love, giving love. It's a very relational wound.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's incredible like it's it makes so much more sense to me now that I've.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Been able to have this experience. I'm taking a look back, and I'm able to just kind of like sit with it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like it's like an out of body experience. I'm looking down at myself.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And I'm like understanding that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: The word trauma. I think for myself growing up. It was.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It was problematic. The word.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Um like. I didn't even know for years that I was carrying was trauma.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Um. That word was just like super abrasive to me.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like it was like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Nails on a chalkboard to associate myself with it, or even acknowledge that I have it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Um. But I really do.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Carry trauma? I do, and that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's the gauge that I'm trying to experience for my own self.

Katie: A lot of people don't realize they've experienced trauma. And that's why I think.

Katie: I said. The one that goes a little unnoticed is, I've had many clients where I'm like. Tell me about your history.

Katie: You know, as a relationship with your parents is always a generic question, and it's.

Katie: Well, I I had a good child. I didn't have any trauma, but as you start to unpack and get to know them.

Katie: You realize Dad was absent, or Mom was absent, or.

Katie: Um, they were parentified. They became a parent early on, you know all of that causes.

Katie: I would call trauma, and growing up, we tended to learn, I think, back in the day.

Katie: You know, Ptsd wasn't found until the eighties. So we had people living with post-traumatic stress disorder for years. I mean, Vietnam. Think about all the wars before that, and so.

Katie: We are. We grew up. I grew up, believing, I should say.

Katie: Trauma was war.

Katie: Veteran or rape.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: Or.

Katie: I wouldn't even say I considered robbery.

Katie: Um. And so that was my extension or my the extent of my knowledge of knowing what.

Katie: What trauma was, and.

Katie: What caused trauma until obviously, I started going to school for it. But um.

Katie: Until I was in grad school. I didn't realize I had childhood trauma. I had no idea.

Katie: I thought it was normal.

Katie: And so a lot of people are walking around with a normalized trauma history.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And that's because.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: They just don't know like the different like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, I guess it's because.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Understanding what trauma is.

Katie: Or you don't know until you name it. Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And then how do you.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: How do you name that like? How do you go from trauma? Being like a.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: A gauge of shame to a gauge of clarity.

Katie: A willingness for start.

Katie: Willingness to know.

Katie: Hey? Someone pointing at relationships marriage, something pointing it out and saying.

Katie: This you're hurting me, or.

Katie: You were hurting, and we need to figure it out and.

Katie: Being available to understanding it.

Katie: I mean, I think it comes becomes clear for different people. Different reasoning.

Katie: Different ways, but.

Katie: Uh willingness to look within the dysfunction, because there has to be something off the baseline. There has to.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: Something dysfunctional for you to realize like this is not okay.

Katie: Something's wrong.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's incredible that you say that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So I'm gonna like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Just I'm just gonna dive straight into it, and we'll like not.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Stick to the full script just like kind of go into it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So you don't really recognize you have a trauma until you hit a point that you have no other.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Basically an option, but to self reflect, and then be able to have that willingness to sit and say, like, Okay, maybe it's.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, maybe I'm the one.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That has something like, maybe.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, if if you and I are having problems.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And you're telling me that I'm making you feel a certain way.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And I'm looking, and I'm like I I didn't mean to do that like I absolutely didn't mean to give you that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Feeling like, how did I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: How did I give you that feeling? And then you go back, and you, self, reflect.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And you're like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Well, what?

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What do I feel like when this is happening like, how how do I? How do I get there from there.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And that's really.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: How it showed up was, I had no other choice but to self, reflect and sit and say like, what? What is the problem.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, what is the problem?

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know this really stemmed down to.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm in the longest relationship that I've ever been in.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I, you know, 6, 7 years.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: 7 years, 6 years, married.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: We've got children. We've got a beautiful life.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Both have careers. I have this incredible thing, you know, that I'm doing with the nonprofit, and it's helping me to understand my mental health and things like that. But there's also.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like an underlying.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Ache just like an underlying.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Just hurt there, and I wasn't.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Understanding like. Why am I so.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Unhappy like if I'm having.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: This picture of happiness that everybody tells me that I'm supposed to be having.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I've got the house, I've got the family. I've got the husband.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: We've got, you know, a car paid off.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: We've both got jobs. Why am I not happy like? Why am I still so unhappy?

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And a friend of mine.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I went to. And I'm having this, you know, just.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Conversation of like, What what do I do?

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: They said to me, You know, Casey, you're you're never gonna be happy. What you think is gonna bring you happiness is is not.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like you really have to look at yourself and figure out.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What is happiness for you?

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You have a big sad like, you will always have a hole.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: This thing has happened to you. You have to look and see. What does happiness look like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: For you, and that hit me in such a way that I I really had never had anybody say that to me before.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Of like, you know, contentment is is okay.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like. Figure out what's making you not happy if you don't know what happiness looks like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Then strip down what's making you unhappy?

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And so my husband and I had gone to counseling, and we were doing the marriage therapy, and it was, you know, really.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Showing some major reflections that were very hard for us. To me it was very hard for me to sit in.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Um, because.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know he's telling me that I'm making him feel how I feel. He's making me feel.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Um, and if he's telling me, you know well.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: This is how you're making me feel. And I'm looking at myself, thinking.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's exactly how you make me feel. So. If.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, what am I doing to make you feel that way like I? I don't want to be responsible for that.

Katie: Relationships.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, like, we're both saying that we're both right.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And refusing, you know, to like work on ourselves.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So all right if you swear that you're right, and it is me.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Alright. I'm done arguing like I'm gonna sit with myself.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And figure out.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What's the problem? Because I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I want to have a relationship like I, I want to be a wife. I want to be a mother I want. I want this so like? Why am I so.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Unhappy.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: We're going to therapy, and the therapist is telling us. You know, there is a foundation of love here. You guys need to figure out.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What's going on in your own individual selves and go to individual trauma therapy because you're triggering each other each other.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And I was like, Okay, you know. And so a therapist is telling me to go to trauma therapy. And we've talked about this before, like, I'm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm interested in going into it and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: But it it was really different when I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Was in marriage therapy, and she's telling me that you have.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Trauma that you need to deal with.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: In order to be able to have a successful relationship.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like. Figure it out.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And my husband and I are.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Having a conversation later that afternoon.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And we had gotten to a point where genuinely Katie.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: We could not speak.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: To each other like we could not even speak to each other. I was like everything I say.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You're taking it wrong, like I'm just digging ourselves into a bigger hole like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: We're not even gonna talk until we go to therapy next week.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And he's like that's a week away like we can't not talk for a week like what what is going on here.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know. And so we.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Try to come back and recalibrate, and he's like, you know, if you would go and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, let's have an evaluation done like. Let's go and and see. You know what's going on in there.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Maybe I can learn.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Whatever. If you're diagnosed with something like we can research it, and that will help us to figure out how to communicate better.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And so I'm like, you know.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, you want me to get a diagnosis? Well, I got one, you know, and I go to my top drawer and I pull out an envelope, and it's got.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: A diagnosis paper in there. It's got, you know, 8 things, this awesome cocktail and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I hand it to him, and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: He reads it, you know, and we're just going over everything and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And we're talking about.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like. I know that I have an anxiety, and I know that I have.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: A panic disorder, but I guess I had never really.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, understood the difference between the 2 of them, because I had never had.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: The freedom to sit and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: My trauma like.

Katie: Or where it came from. They came from trauma.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I you know it was incredible, because I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Have been on this travel and this road of mental health.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And so I've done.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: The psychiatric ward I was, you know, Baker acted for 11 days like I've I've had all of these people do all of these evaluations, and give me all of these diagnoses and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I don't feel a lot of clarity in that. And so.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Now we're getting here, and we're talking about, you know.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Trauma and my mom, and recognizing that this is like a.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: A thing, and I'm old enough now where people can't just tell me to sit down and shut up. Basically.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know, not hold the space for it, so I'm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm looking at everything and and taking a.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: A look, peeling the layers back, looking at the complexity of things, and realizing that, like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I need to go to a trauma therapist.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like. I talked to somebody who specializes in.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Trauma, because a lot of these things are.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Side, like ticks of.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Specific diagnoses.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: But they're not really those diagnoses. So when we're sitting here and we're having all these arguments.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: He thinks I'm being like narcissistic, or I'm manipulating things when in reality.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I can't even. I've melted.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like I can't even logistically.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Think, to be able to have.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: A conversation like I can't even form words at that point.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And so we're trying to break it down and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm trying to explain to him the difference between anxiety.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And panic and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know he's he's like. That's your anxiety when you hit that, and I'm like no.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: No anxiety is when I'm sitting in the car, and the seatbelt touches me, and I like have to move the seatbelt off my chest, and I can self soothe.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like through my anxiety. You know I can. I'm talking to you. We're riding down the road.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: When I had a panic.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's like I can't.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like I have. I've melted like, I cannot talk anymore. It's like we are just hitting a stride, and we are just going awesome. And you and I are tied at the ankle, and we are just running so well.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And then all of a sudden.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I've tripped, and I I cannot.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Get up like I need you to recognize that I have physically fallen.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, don't I? I don't care about the trip. I don't care that it was a stick that came out of nowhere, and you know we can move it off the road, or whatever we need to do. But like I need you to recognize that I have tripped.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And like help me back up, because at that point, when I go into a panic.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I am unable to regulate myself.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like it can take.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Hours. It can take days sometimes for me to be able to.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Just like self regulate.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And then in that moment.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: He and I had.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Such a connection.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That I understood that this is my trauma.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I have a diagnosis. These are trauma related like, I'm not mentally.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like this is all correlating, like all of this, correlates together.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And, Katie. I don't know if you've ever.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Had a benadryl shot.

Katie: No.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like. So I have, and this is like the only thing that I can physically explain. It.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: To like help you to understand, like relate, like I am anaphylactic to a medication.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Found that out the hard way, right like. Took the medication, had an immediate.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Um body reaction.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Where it was like call 9 1, 1.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Ambulance came, gave me a benadryl shot.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And like immediately.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like immediate, fixed it like immediate relief.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And so that's what happened like when he and I connected, and I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It like registered for me that, like I I am ha! Like, this is like, I'm actually having.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: A trauma response. When we get into this point.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Of miscommunication.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That I have like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Developed a pattern of like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: If he and I have like one little miscommunication our wires across. I've seen the past patterns, and now I'm just preparing for.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know an explosion.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And I'm like bracing for the explosion when not necessarily is it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Needed. And so in having that clarity.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I was like, Oh, my God! Like my brain has just stopped. It's just so quiet like.

Katie: Yeah, you treat it like a threat.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Holy cow. It like it, just like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It was quiet like it was just like.

Katie: Yeah, it seems like you freeze, too, when you're in a threat.

Katie: It's that whole fire to flight fawn thing right. But like.

Katie: The freeze is. There's this thing called window of tolerance. It's a dbt exercise. Um.

Katie: Uh, well, tool?

Katie: Um. But window of tolerance is we have.

Katie: Our baseline is the window of tolerance, and you're either in hyperarousal or hypo arousal. Hyper is fight or flight. Hypo is really freeze and shut down.

Katie: You know, numb and so.

Katie: A lot of people are living in that survival on one or the other, and our window of tolerance is a regulated state.

Katie: Where it says, Hey, I'm regulated. I can have a conversation. I can take myself out of the equation and listen to my partner. But.

Katie: When we're in either of those States, there's a threat happening. And that's what trauma does.

Katie: It tells us.

Katie: That.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, like, it.

Katie: That there's something coming we need to survive.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And like, we don't even yeah. And it's like you don't even.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like it just automatically happens.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I could just put you in there.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Dude! Oh, God! Oh.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, my God! So I'm like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm taking a step back.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And my brain had gotten so quiet.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And then I'm just sitting here like God, like, why does it do that like what is going on in my brain when that's happening?

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And it's just so much chaos like it is just so loud. It's just chaos. And I was able to.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Step back and understand that I literally went back.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: All the way back to my one year old self.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Where I was asleep. In the bed, curled.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Next to my mom, like super safe.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And I just wake up in a panic.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: To chaos, to loud.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: My mom is dead, and my life is never going to be the same again. I have.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: No idea how we got here like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I like, how did this happen? And then, just.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Life, as I know it, is completely.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And it it never goes. It never goes back there, and it was like understanding.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like dude. It was like a freaking wave like it was just wild. I was absolutely basking in it. It was the most incredible.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Brain freedom I have ever experienced. It was like euphoria, and it was like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Just an intense brain orgasm, even like to be able to sit and say.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's what happens. I go back.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: To a state of.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like like I'm going back to the State. I can't even.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Articulate the fact that, like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's what happens.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And then I have to get out of it like I have to be brought back into like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: This is present. This is not real. Everything is awesome, like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like calm down and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That that was just wild to me to be able to have.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That experience like to be able to sit and say.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: This is trauma, and this is a trauma reaction, like, I'm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm not even meaning to do this. Wow! Like.

Katie: Yeah.

Katie: Um, and it's all fear based.

Katie: So.

Katie: Can't have, can't fear, and love can't operate in the same space.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, yeah, no, that explains it. Because and I I tried to explain to him, too, like, I'm high functioning like, I don't do this all day, every day.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like I. I don't just have panic attacks all day every day, but, like I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Am clearly thinking that something is gonna happen and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: This is gonna array our life. And it's making this.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Just come out. So when I think.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That I'm trying to.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like freeze or like I'm like I'm visibly flinching, or like you should be able to see what's going on.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like you're you're not. You just.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: See my behavior and and not what's real.

Katie: Yeah. And we all have parts like, you have wounded parts. He has wounded parts, we all have parts, and all of our parts usually.

Katie: Are triggering each other's parts.

Katie: So there's that's why some people we don't vibe with.

Katie: Um. Some people. We do.

Katie: Um. It's just.

Katie: Trauma. Causes.

Katie: Parts. There's a therapy called internal family systems, and it's just a family of parts within us.

Katie: Doing parts work or Emdr.

Katie: Is something I think we would benefit from.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, yeah, I wanna try the I've seen like the pelvic.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Exercises, or whatever where you store.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like a lot of your nervous system.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And stuff there is that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You're talking about.

Katie: Nope.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, what are you talking about?

Katie: Very close. Um, no, not your body. Parts your parts internally.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Body, parts.

Katie: Inside of you their emotional parts for lack of a better way of putting it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like.

Katie: Family system. So you have. You have a protector, you have the inner child. You have a variety of personalities, not multiple personality, disorder, or did. But you have different.

Katie: Parts of you that interact in certain circumstances, certain relationships, certain.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What?

Katie: Yes.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Okay, this is my 1st time. Hearing this.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's incredible.

Katie: Well, yeah, it's not a normal, I mean, unless you're in the therapy world. So but I was saying for you, trauma, therapy, internal family systems.

Katie: Which is what I'm saying, or Emdr would be really helpful.

Katie: Because some trauma is so deep that talk therapy can only go so far.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, and that's.

Katie: So I've had various clients where talk therapy went too far and they needed someone more. Trauma informed.

Katie: And someone who is certified in those 2 things.

Katie: Um so.

Katie: The willingness to do it is not on me, but.

Katie: Hopefully. They took that advice.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, it's like, uh being able to.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Go back into the the time where it happened. Basically.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like being able to recognize that you're.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Having a flashback.

Katie: I mean, sometimes you don't realize you're having a flashback. It's your body that's remembering, or um, subconsciously remembering.

Katie: And then you're responding from that. But Emdr is eye movement, and so.

Katie: Whatever. I don't know the scientific name parts of, because I'm not certified in it, but.

Katie: The eye movement is changing something, and how the emotion, the emotional attachment to a memory.

Katie: In your brain, it literally transforms it.

Katie: Through the the structured.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: See it.

Katie: Sessions.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's incredible. I'll get into that, you know.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, I've had past.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: People tell me that, like I have a hard time looking at them, or like I tend to look up.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: When I'm having conversations.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And so I wonder if.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Gonna show some like, if that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: If that will show me that I do do that.

Katie: I don't know. It's a. The eye movement is a technique that they use.

Katie: To transform the brain and the memories of the trauma.

Katie: So.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'll look into that and see.

Katie: What you're describing is a behavior.

Katie: Possible that happens.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Okay.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, yeah.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That makes more sense. Yeah, cause I do, that is a.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That is a behavior that I do.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, I'll have to look into that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And see, like what all there is. I'm so interested to see what.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm interested to like kind of.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Embody it and figure out what I can do to help myself, because I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I think I've realized that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I've been trying for so long to communicate that I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Need help. And I I want help. And I need want someone.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: To like. Listen in old space for me.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: But at this point I feel like, maybe I've gotten too old, or that it's taken too long, or it doesn't matter anymore. And none of that is right.

Katie: That's not true.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: None of it's true, because I'm I'm like every day I'm almost 40 years old every day I'm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I I'm in like a fight or flight mode, because my nervous system is so regulated to just expect.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Panic. That is my base. When I wake up every day I'm in a state of panic.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And that is sad.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like when I.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: When I realized what was happening I was going back to that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Panic self. And I realized that was the feeling that I was having of like just waking up to.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: My life never being the same again, and I don't know how we got here.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Really just like clicked.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like it was like I had a backpack on.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And I took like a backpack full of textbooks like you and I used to have like back when we were in high school.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know the giant textbooks like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: 40, 50, 60 pound backpack that I just had.

Katie: Bye.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Forever, and I just took it down.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I took it off, and I set it down.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And it was like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That feeling of balance between having that wait on for so long.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And then. Now, what am I supposed to do without that weight on? I can breathe. I can like even stand.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Better, to.

Katie: Yeah. You don't know how to live free.

Katie: Because it's never been there.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, my God! That's exactly.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's exactly how it felt. It was scary, but it was like.

Katie: It's something else. When you go from surviving to thriving, you know.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Rejuvenating, too.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: That's the difference when you're.

Katie: When you have a trauma history.

Katie: Um. And with you your life started in violence. Essentially, you know. So it's like.

Katie: This chaos being the comfort, chaos of things being hyper aroused is a norm for you, and.

Katie: To learning, to.

Katie: Regulate that and.

Katie: Feel relaxed, actually relaxed. Not just. I have nothing productive to do. Actually, your body relaxing and.

Katie: That is one of the best coping skills for trauma is to relax our body.

Katie: Because that's where it starts first.st

Katie: So like that, we're we're holding it there. So we need to. When we relax our body.

Katie: Immediately something changes.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Maybe you have it like on.

Katie: Correct and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That that like.

Katie: It's a booking school.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's so wild.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Because, yeah, that's a coping skill. That's why it's so important to like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Learn this stuff because I'm learning myself.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And I'm realizing that I'm not.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, I'm not a problem, but like.

Katie: Right.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Not knowing these things about me is becoming a problem.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's like showing up every day. And I'm you're so right like I don't know.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like time.

Katie: It's not a problem. It's a coping skill.

Katie: It's how you've learned to cope. It's not a problem. It's just all. You don't know what you know until you know.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: You know. So it's not a problem. It's a part of your story that's been displaying itself and.

Katie: The inappropriate way. That's all.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Dude that's so sad.

Katie: It is sad. That's why there's grief in it.

Katie: You see.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: Yeah. That's why grief isn't.

Katie: Grief encompasses everything.

Katie: Grief is in everything.

Katie: Where there is an end there is a beginning. There's grief to that end, but there's also joy in the beginning.

Katie: Or vice versa, you know, for some stories.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, holy.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's so incredible to like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: To look at it like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like it's really incredible to like, take a look at it like it, you know. I've heard that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like. It's such hard work like it's really all such hard work. And every time I've heard that I think I've just put that to a physical.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Condentation that it's, you know, physical labor like that's the hard work, and that's.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's not the case. It's like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: The reflection, like looking at.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What it looks like. It's very ugly to look at, but like what is ugly.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, like we have a standard of what ugly we think beauty is, but it it's just what it looks like.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like that's.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You have to sit in it and be able to say, like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm freaking out right now because I I think.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: My world is ending. But it it's not like, it's, it's okay, like, everything like this is just my brain.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, wow! I don't. I don't know how we got there, but like, let's bring it on. Bring it back down.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like.

Katie: Yeah. And trauma, I mean, trauma displays itself through action. So.

Katie: And ultra independence, high productivity, accomplishments, accolades, all those things.

Katie: That's how we tend to.

Katie: Work it off, or fight it off.

Katie: Um. But the real work in the healing process is facing it, because what we do not deal with will deal with us at some point in some way.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, there's a complete.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like caveat. To that, too, like the flip side of the coin, is.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like it coming out, and the panic.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Or like the dysfunction.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Or you know, you can be super hyper, productive, and have all the accolades. But whenever you're having a conversation like with your partner or your kids, and you're overstimulated. You just crash out.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like that's.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, yeah.

Katie: Relationships wound us, and they're the ones that heal us.

Katie: It's always gonna be that way.

Katie: It's the way it was designed.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, that's incredible. That's so.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's so true. Because, like, I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Ah! We had gotten into a conversation where?

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know, I was trying to like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: De-escalate the situation.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Because we just push buttons, and I pushed his buttons and he pushed my buttons. And then we're just sitting here like in an elevator just light, and all the buttons up to all the floors, you know, and like. We don't even know how we got here.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And I'm like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know I love you like just trying to calm it down and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know he's like you don't even know what love is.

Katie: Hmm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And I'm like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You're right. Like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like like, maybe I don't like you should be an example to me of what love is but like, since we're not in that space right now.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Um. Yeah, like, maybe I don't know what love is. So.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So what is it like?

Katie: Think you would know what love is.

Katie: Like it's.

Katie: The belief system behind that or.

Katie: The fearful.

Katie: The fear behind it of not being able to give and receive it appropriately.

Katie: Because of trauma.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, well, it's such a small word like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Love like I like. I've had to really.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Take a step back and have a full.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: View of what I thought life was supposed to be.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like what was told to me that life was gonna be.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And like what I'm actually like getting.

Katie: Mhm.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And understand that like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Love is an emotion like love is a feeling like feelings.

Katie: Yeah. Yep.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Change, you know they come and go.

Katie: And it's a bird.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And then, yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Love is a verb like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Love is like a tiny small 4 little word.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: 4 letter word that somebody just.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Put a flashlight on, and it's shining this giant shadow on the wall. And like that's the feeling that we're chasing.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, really, we're chasing freedom.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like the ability to just sit in ourselves and have options and be able to have the freedom of choosing that option, no matter what that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Choice is.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like we're chasing freedom that looks like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Love, and that freedom is the ability.

Katie: That's it. That's our human desire. We are born with an innate desire to be loved, seen, heard, valued. So we are ultimately always chasing that.

Katie: But when you have trauma, trauma really clouds what that looks like, so we chase it in the most inappropriate ways, the most risk taking ways, the most.

Katie: Painful ways, codependency being one of those things drugs, addiction.

Katie: Um alcohol.

Katie: And until we deal with.

Katie: The reason why it's hard for us to know what love looks like. Real love.

Katie: Um. We will.

Katie: Take whatever we can get. Sometimes.

Katie: Because there's a fear of.

Katie: I mean, there's always this oscillation, too, sometimes the fear of abandonment, the fear of being too close. But if it's an anxious attachment or an anxious that that has been caused from trauma.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: We are in fear of being abandoned, so we will do whatever we need to keep that.

Katie: That looks like manipulation, right? Different behaviors.

Katie: Behaviors that we pick up.

Katie: And then, if you don't want to be, do you fear being too close? Then there's avoidant behaviors, and so we.

Katie: These are simply ways that we've learned to cope in relationship.

Katie: Because of our childhood.

Katie: These are ways that we've learned to cope. And for us it's coping for us. It's surviving for us. It's.

Katie: Just the way it's gonna be.

Katie: Um so.

Katie: It's. It's a very deep.

Katie: Wound very deep.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, like, super complex, because it it feels like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yes, like, exactly like I'm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like I am trying.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: To survive. But it's like also.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's how we've learned how to cope. So it's like us thinking that this is normal.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And it not being.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Quote, unquote, normal.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Is is what's.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like kind of groundbreaking and forcing you to have to like, really sit back and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Figure out what's going on like? What makes it not normal, like what happened for you to not be that cookie cutter.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And when you get into the details of it.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What do you do like what? There's so many things that correlate together like you have a trauma, and that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know, induces grief, and sometimes that grief looks so different like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know. I I had to have like a lot of conversations with.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know my parents, and and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, tell my dad, like you think that this is what's happening when when in reality like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I wasn't being able to be taken care of, because that grief in the family had gotten so big that they couldn't even get out of bed.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like I was hungry like I was like in a room by myself.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Most of the time. That is my core childhood memories. When it comes to this time in my life.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And so.

Katie: So that's the core memory.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: Let's stay there for a sec. If it's a core memory.

Katie: What is the deep-rooted belief that follows that.

Katie: The narrative that you believe wrapped around that memory.

Katie: And what you were, how you were treated.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, wow! Well, I feel like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Well, first, st I feel like my perception has changed now that I'm older, and I've been able to kind of like see stuff. But like.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Really that depression, like the just.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: How sad it was.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like just how sad I could just remember just sad like I felt like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I was too much to be taken care of.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I felt like I was afraid.

Katie: Very quickly.

Katie: I'm not lovable.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, yeah.

Katie: Everyone leaves right. There's this this narrative that follows, and then it becomes a core belief. And now that core belief, everything we do is, the the behaviors are rooted in that.

Katie: And so we do not, because you just said, What do we do? We don't fix trauma. We can't fix the trauma. We can't go back and fix what's been done.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: But we have to be able to tend to it with compassion.

Katie: Um, we have to create our own safety and understanding what that looks like for ourselves.

Katie: Um, because your husband is safe for you. You're saying.

Katie: But your trauma when that stuff comes up and that wound is rearing its ugly head.

Katie: It's saying he's not safe, and so there's.

Katie: There's miscommunication.

Katie: And um.

Katie: Like. That's how we'd reach healing and resilience, though, is being able to tend to it.

Katie: With compassion. It's kind of like when you think of planting. I'm not a planter. I don't keep plants alive, but.

Katie: I'm aware that when they outgrow you have to repot.

Katie: Um. And so I think of healing trauma and healing ourselves.

Katie: As planting and having a garden. There's so much therapeutic technique.

Katie: That is being tended to those taking care of it, growing it, nurturing it, making sure it's getting enough sun, making sure it's getting enough water.

Katie: Making sure it's not getting too much right. There's a balance. There's boundaries with it, and that's what we have to do to ourselves. We have to allow our story to be heard and told.

Katie: But not allow the story to control.

Katie: Who we are and and what we do with it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What do you do?

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What do you do when you're able to like? Recognize? Okay? Now, I'm having a trauma response like you've.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Going through all this, and then you get back into.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Well, I don't want this to be a repetitive thing like now we've been here. We've seen it. There's no going backwards from here.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: But then, how do you get to a space where.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like you do have to do a whole rewiring of stuff. So that stuff, you know.

Katie: That's gonna take time and practice. So you.

Katie: You find a tool that works. So when you notice it coming up.

Katie: You have to embrace it as a friend. You have to be compassionate towards yourself.

Katie: Because the problem is not that something comes up and that you feel overstimulated in some way.

Katie: Or over, like.

Katie: That arousal I mentioned earlier hyperarousal or hypo. The. It's not the problem that that comes up the.

Katie: The the issue is that we respond to whatever it is that was triggering.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Mhm.

Katie: We're reacting instead of pausing and regulating. And so emotional regulation is always going to be the 1st step.

Katie: To figuring out the process of what's happening internally. If you don't check in with yourself emotional regulation.

Katie: How do you know what's going on, and how to tend to it?

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: How does one?

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I guess like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Ah! How do you.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like, how, how can you meet in it and like help to.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Regulate, like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: When you say you've got a.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Sit with yourself, understand your emotions and help yourself. Regulate like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You've got to find a tool.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like I can understand that. Maybe.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know you can metaphorically see yourself.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like like I mentioned earlier, running like tied at the ankle to your partner, just having a great stride, and then you.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Trip like you. You know, it's a stick, it it doesn't matter what the trip was. It's just the recognition that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: There has been a trip.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: How do we get up from here to keep going.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And then, yeah, I guess just like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: The role of co-regulation and like naming what's happening in real time.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And like the importance of.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Learning how to co-regulate when you're in a partnership with someone.

Katie: Well, co-regulation is.

Katie: For you both. Yes, but self-regulation is going to be 1st and foremost.

Katie: Um. You can't co-regulate if you're not self-regulating. Um!

Katie: Because you can't be attuned with that person.

Katie: You're not intuned with yourself.

Katie: And so regulating the trauma.

Katie: When it comes up, is self-regulation, is calming the nervous system and getting back to that present moment.

Katie: So being grounded in the present moment, but also.

Katie: Um soothing the nervous system.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: So like recognizing, like, okay, even learning how to self regulate. Like, okay, I'm feeling.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Panic right now, like I don't know where the panic is coming from, like we're obviously on the wrong.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Step here like I'm feeling a panic like.

Katie: Yeah, think about like, your.

Katie: Driving down the or something, and your car just stops, and all the lights are just lighting up at one time like the check engine, light all you know the battery, all the lights in your dashboard.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Uh-huh.

Katie: Are lighting up at one time.

Katie: We can either start to panic and say, Oh, my gosh! And go down the road of like. I can't afford a new car, and like all the things right, this panic, mode.

Katie: Where fear sets in, and fear is action oriented. Fear does not pause.

Katie: Fear is like got to do this. Got to fix it.

Katie: Gotta work through it. Gotta get. I gotta do something. Um.

Katie: And then the other thing is.

Katie: Pretending it's not happening and keep driving. Those are the 2 options in that scenario.

Katie: But no matter what the lights lighting up is an alarming situation, regulation would look like.

Katie: Okay, like, you just said, Okay.

Katie: The lights are going off. Let me pull the car over.

Katie: Let me figure out!

Katie: Maybe not. The entire problem.

Katie: But let me just sit with this for a minute and pull off the road for safety.

Katie: Let me get safe out of the way.

Katie: Okay, now, what's the next step? Oh, I could call somebody. I need to get it towed. Is it starting? Is it working? Can I get home.

Katie: Right. It's thinking.

Katie: Through. It. It's.

Katie: So it's self regulation is being able.

Katie: To name what's happening, identify the issue, and being able to feel your way through that.

Katie: Instead of reacting with panic or.

Katie: Avoidance.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, and how to move like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Just.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, through it. Like, being.

Katie: Become. It's noticing it, becoming aware of it. You like, when you notice something.

Katie: Like this is anxiety. This is fear.

Katie: This is a trauma response. This is not real. This is not.

Katie: Me. This is not who I am. This is a trauma response.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Mhm.

Katie: Um.

Katie: And recognizing at the same time.

Katie: What that feels like in your body as a red flag of.

Katie: Or as a flag in general of like, okay, this is what's happening.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: So I feel tightness in my chest, or racing thoughts.

Katie: Or that panic in my body when I feel that physical and the physiological and psychological symptoms of that, I know this is a trauma response. And because I know that.

Katie: I can better defeat the enemy. It's not an enemy, but.

Katie: I can defeat this battle.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: Better, knowing what I'm up against versus pretending. I don't.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah. Well, I honestly never even thought that this was gonna be something that I was.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: God. I had no idea. 1st of all, I had no idea that I was having trauma responses until.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Came up, and I had no other choice but to.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Reflect, and like.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Sit in it. And then once it happened, it came over me. It was like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Just so washing. It was like genuinely like a rebirth. It was like a completely. I was a different person.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It was like I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Did not think I was ever gonna be able to have.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: The feeling of the lift like the backpack, putting it down.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like the understand, the clarity.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I didn't think that I was gonna have that type of clarity like that type of piece.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Until my mom's case.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Was solved, and then, even at that point, it.

Katie: Look.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It wasn't what it that wasn't.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What I thought that it was gonna look like like it was just completely.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It was totally different. It was completely, totally different, but even, I dare to say, like almost so much better.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Because, like, yeah, I would love for there to be.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Justice, and for that to be closed, and for us to be able to have.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Answers, and then.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know. Of course, that's gonna come with its own.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Peace and healing.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: In the event that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Maybe that doesn't happen.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: The thought, like the hope.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That I could sit with this even more, and like, get to know myself even more, and give my.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Self space, and like, check out.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Trauma therapy, get more into trauma and figure out.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Trauma diagnosis like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Lean into it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Learn it, acknowledge it like, recognize it.

Katie: Well, you have to be able to recognize. This is an old wound.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: I'm not in danger right now. This is not actual danger. This is an old wound coming up, and I need to.

Katie: Self-talk. Self-soothe myself out of this.

Katie: Belief that I'm unsafe.

Katie: Um.

Katie: But a lot of people like you just mentioned, with your mom's justice or injustice.

Katie: A lot of people believe that justice is is the the ultimate healing point, and and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: Murder case. And if that's the case you're saying.

Katie: What had the power to hurt me has the power to heal me, and that is false.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Mhm.

Katie: The power does not lie.

Katie: In anyone's hands but ours, and so whoever caused the greatest pain does not have the same power to heal us.

Katie: And so we have to recognize that justice is not the answer.

Katie: We can. Both can be true. We can get justice at some point, but I can find healing without having all of the answers.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Hmm.

Katie: And that is extremely difficult for survivors to grasp.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: It's a painful gray area.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: Because 30, 40 years down the road, when justice comes.

Katie: Your pain and your trauma.

Katie: Still there, still the same.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: Hasn't changed.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You're so right because.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: The like. The hypothetical.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like the imagination that I get when I think of what would happen when that happens.

Katie: Mhm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Would not give me. It doesn't give me the same resignation of the feeling that I have of like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Recognizing that I have a trauma.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like I. I have it. And and like this is how my body operates. These are the responses like I would still be doing those trauma responses.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Even if it was solved, like, I recognize that.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And that's that's incredible. Like, that's.

Katie: Yep.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's hard.

Katie: They tell you whoever killed her.

Katie: Doesn't have the power to heal you.

Katie: Because caught or not caught.

Katie: The pain is still very real. You still don't have her.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: They still took something from you.

Katie: And so, when we sit in stuckness or unwillingness to face that pain.

Katie: We are allowing them to win. Over and over and over. They have power.

Katie: And I refuse to give anyone that power in my life.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: They don't even know it, like they don't even know that they have that power over you. It's incredible.

Katie: No.

Katie: They don't.

Katie: But we do.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Dude. Well.

Katie: You know what they do with that power, though, is, they don't know because they're not thinking about it. I don't know what everyone does that's killed someone and moved on. You know. I don't know if they have regret or what.

Katie: And if they do, and they're sitting in it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: God bless them! I hope it turns to conviction enough to come forward. But if they're not, and they're living their life.

Katie: That is what they're doing with their power. They are living forward.

Katie: Are living on and moving forward the same way that we need to.

Katie: It doesn't make it right. No, I gosh, no, it's not right for anybody to just be able to move on. But the point is.

Katie: Is that that's what they're doing with that power is.

Katie: That they don't care the way that we care.

Katie: How could they? You know.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I do often wonder that though sometimes.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I do wonder if it keeps them awake at night like as much as it keeps me awake, or if they think about it, and wonder if they're gonna get caught, or wonder if they even think about what happened, or if they feel bad at all, or if there's literally like not even a thought.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Doesn't even cross that thing.

Katie: Yeah, think about it, too. I also imagine they could be dead.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: And that used to make me very sad to think if they're dead, then I'll never get to know them or the justice that we deserved.

Katie: Um and to like live, knowing, not knowing if someone's dead or alive.

Katie: Versus.

Katie: The belief that they're out there not caring like which one is Saturn. It's probably the 1st one where they're dead.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Ma'am.

Katie: You know, but I don't think about it as often because it doesn't hold any.

Katie: Wait their life and their lack thereof.

Katie: Life, or their inability to come forward holds no weight on my life, and what I do.

Katie: They got one up on me already. They're not getting more.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: There we go!

Katie: Like a boxing match. You know. I stay in the ring. You already knocked me out once I'm gonna get up.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah.

Katie: And I'm not leaving the ring. And so.

Katie: I just refuse you already took what's most precious to me. You can't take anymore.

Katie: Nothing.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And that's I. Oh, my God! I hear you on that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Really, when I put the backpack down like when I had.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: When I I just looked at myself and everything. I I didn't even care anymore, Katie. I didn't.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like. I thought that I would only get.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: What I thought. I was only going to get that healing when the case was closed, and there was an arrest made.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And at that point, when I got the healing, and I had had it for myself.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It was like, I don't even care like I could continue to give.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: This to myself, like I could keep.

Katie: Yep.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Digging and digging, and trying to.

Katie: Yeah. And until you experience that survivors won't understand.

Katie: That reality.

Katie: Of I mean, I've said.

Katie: I'm okay if it never gets solved. And that is a very.

Katie: Could be angering and heavy statement for some survivors to hear.

Katie: But I mean it with every bone in my body.

Katie: So my goal in life is to help people reach that point. Maybe not the exact point I'm at, because that's my journey, my my relationship with my dad is different than everyone else's relationship with their loved ones. But.

Katie: Um. I do think some are.

Katie: Truly not recover. You know that maybe they won't recover, moms. I don't know if they'll recover fully.

Katie: But to be able to make meaning out of it and live and move forward is possible for all survivors of all trauma, all hurts all pains, and if I can get someone at least one out of 5.

Katie: To do that. Then I've done what I want to do on earth.

Katie: Because I do believe in hope and resilience, and finding meaning from pain.

Katie: I believe in that with my whole entire body, with all that I am, and that is a hill. I will die on.

Katie: So I don't think we ever fully recover and say, Well, I don't miss them.

Katie: I'm okay that this happened.

Katie: But the power of.

Katie: The results. The power of understanding, the power of why does not hold any weight anymore.

Katie: It changes something inside of you.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, yeah, it does.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, it does. Buddy. Like, I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I I wouldn't have necessarily been able to agree with you earlier.

Katie: Mhm, you didn't.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Had I not.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: No, I no, I didn't. You're absolutely right. No, I didn't. No, I didn't. I didn't. I was like Katie. You're so full of crap like, I know you're trying to make me feel better, but like there's no way.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And like, really, though, it's.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Liberating.

Katie: Yeah, I love that for you. I love that for everyone. It brings a great emotion to me. And um.

Katie: Of like bittersweet, because it's sad that we have to reach that point. But it's also extremely exhilarating for me to see that.

Katie: For people, because freedom is such a point of joy for our lives.

Katie: And I believe wholeheartedly that it's so reachable.

Katie: When we reach for it, it's reachable.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, that's exactly right. So you know.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Even if you don't know what love is like, strive for freedom like I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I want that freedom. That's exactly what it is, too, is.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, God! A freedom from a burden of trauma.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like one little.

Katie: The freedom that you're describing, though, is a compassion and love for yourself.

Katie: And you won't reach love outside of yourself until you reach that for yourself internally.

Katie: You know, and so that freedom comes from.

Katie: You healing little you.

Katie: That's what happened.

Katie: You know.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Being able to see little Casey in that second.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And like, understand that.

Katie: Did you ever see rocket man.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Alright!

Katie: It was based on Elton John's life.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yes.

Katie: Remember when he hugs his inner child at the end of it in the group, setting.

Katie: That was him healing. That's what I think of.

Katie: When we reach a certain point in our healing, we're like we're hugging ourselves. We're hugging that little baby.

Katie: Who had nothing to do with the most violent nature.

Katie: Of a crime.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, Buddy, I think that was the 1st time I ever really saw.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Little Casey like I've seen pictures of her, and like I know that.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You've told me so many times that I needed to, you know, and there's different.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Ages of me to go back to.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: But that was the 1st time I ever saw it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like that was the 1st time I ever saw.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Any of it.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And it was just so.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like shocking.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Jarring that it like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Stopped me, and I just.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Broke like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I felt so much love and compassion, and like sadness, and just want to hold my own self.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That it was like forgiveness and grace, and.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It made sense.

Katie: Yeah.

Katie: That's what self-soothing looks like doing it over and over.

Katie: What do you need? What do I need right now? What is this telling me.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Dude. That's incredible!

Katie: Yeah. It's a beautiful process.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It is a beautiful process. It really is. It is.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It is work, but it is beautiful work, and it is.

Katie: I love it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's worth it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Ah, well, Katie, let's go ahead and get it wrapped up. I have had a fantastic conversation. Thanks so much for.

Katie: Yes.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Come to our therapy talk.

Katie: I love it. I'm so thankful for this, and I think you're changing lives and doing great things.

Katie: And so I'm glad that you reached a breakthrough for yourself and your own timing. That's the other part of this trauma talk is.

Katie: Everything comes in our own timing when we're when our readiness is there and our willingness.

Katie: Um to leave suffering.

Katie: And and figure it out, but.

Katie: It's different for everyone. And so.

Katie: Everyone's journey is going to be aligned to whatever specifically they need.

Katie: Um and their own. You know their own trauma history, because everyone has a.

Katie: Different trauma. History, too.

Katie: And so it's not easy. It's not easy, but it's so worth it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, it's not easy. It's so worth it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: It's it's really humbling. Oh, it can be really super embarrassing. And like.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You know, cringe.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: When you realize behaviors don't match what you're feeling.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And you really look at.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Really look at what's going on on the gears versus what's going on on the outside.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And uh recognize recognize that it's a trauma response that is.

Katie: The right people will love you through that, though.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: That's it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yeah, yep. And then you love yourself even more, because, like I, I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I do, Buddy. Oh, my God!

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I do love myself more than I.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I do love myself more than I did.

Katie: I hope so. You're very lovable.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Thank you. Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I'm I am. I'm not hard to love. I've just.

Katie: You would have to pull up.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Dude. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. Ah.

Katie: Yeah.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Well, if you're listening right now, and realizing maybe you've been shaped by trauma, too.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: I want you to know. That doesn't mean you're broken. It means you're human.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Healing isn't about fixing who you are. It's about remembering who you've always been underneath those wounds.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Trauma may have shaped you, but it does not define you.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You are allowed to feel joy.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You are allowed to rest, you are allowed to heal on your own terms in your own time.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Katie, thank you for helping us. Remember that it was so good to have you.

Katie: Thank you so much. I love this, and I love you, and I'm I'm just thankful. So anytime.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Oh, we're definitely gonna have you back again, Buddy. I love these talks.

Katie: Yeah.

Katie: They're uplifting.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Yes, they are.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: We'll definitely have you back for more of these talks.

Katie: I can't wait.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: They are awesome, and to you listening.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You are worthy of healing, worthy of peace, and worthy of being loved exactly as you are.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: If this episode moved something in you, please share it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: You never know who needs to hear it.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And if you're navigating your own healing journey you are not alone. We'll meet you right where you are.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: And next time, with hearts full and arms open.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: See you, then.

Take off the Mask with CasieCasem: Bye, Katie.

Katie: Bye. Thank you.